Curse

miriforst · Jun 08, 2010, 02:51 PM // 14:51

necros are tough to balance, and it is seriously the class when it comes to flexibility and power, especially in pve.

yes necros had an power creep and a lot of things maybe does something better than a MM, but if they buff necros in another attribute it will spray opdness all over the place.

curses necros for SS and jummy dmg, protection and more, blood for awesome support and for SV and soul reaping... does i have to point that out?

death magic surely isn't bad as an attribute, it got decent damage spells as well as a wall of weak but spammable minions that roll over things until facing of elementalist bosses.

the only problem is that there is lots of mobs that doesn't leave corpses like in the uw, but then rangers cant spread their poison either.

probably they are going to focus on Motivation, possibly mysticism and hopefully wilderness survival before messing with other attributes (and then even deadly arts may be a bit higher in priority than this)
after having buffed atleast 5 other attributes i dont think they will look into it.

But i want to tell that i rather see a necromancer being a necromancer (reawakening the dead) than being better mesmers (SS, SV) than mesmers are while still having a bigger flexibility.

anyway necros are among the most popular in high end pve although not MM:s all the time

aspi · Jun 08, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risus

MM's aren't overpowered, especially in hard mode. If you ever say "Sabway much" then recognize that sabway is 3 MM's with bars specifically made to have the MM's excel in Hard Mode. Ever try running Discord in Hard Mode (or even NORMAL MODE) in an area with AoE? BaiBai minions.

And here is the fact about Death Nova on players vs AI. AI can find minions and cast on them immediately. Players have to mouse over the huge ball of minions, guess which one has Death Nova or not, repeat repeat repeat repeat. AI wins.

? I vanquished EOTN and almost all of Elona with 8 necro's. I went pretty smooth and sure there is some areas with large aoe but i rather see the minions die than my team.

For a human MM it's it probably easier to use putrid bile than death nova, but the AI is much better at bombing than most people.

Awex Mafyews · Jun 08, 2010, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

I don't run MM because I rather watch someone play tennis. IE: it's boring, like knitting or something horrible.

knitting is boring, tennis most definitely is not, unless your not the sporty type, who can't appreciate anything skillfull unless it's on a computer screen........

But yes MM are very powerful, I wouldn't say there overpowered but having an MM hero is extremely hand in a lot of PvE

The Riven · Jun 08, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Aww you HAD to make an insult, so I'm going to make the assumption that you have acne.

You seriously think any human can cast "death nova" better than a Hero?

Gotta stick up for Xenos here, A human MM is better than a hero MM, a hero MB will always cast DN with more accuracy. What Xenos is saying is a good necro MM is better than a hero version. Its quite simple.

That being said, I will always prefer to run a curses build over death.

Edit to add....

A MM in FA is always a giggle though

Nihilim Dhiamara · Jun 08, 2010, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Ashes

I used to run an MM in the old 5 man Oro runs like 4 years ago. Having 40-50 minions just crush everything on screen was and still is the greatest thing I've seen on GW lol.

I've only been playing from faction release but could anyone post some screenshots of it? I would love to see 50 minions in actions

nitetime · Jun 08, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Riven

A human MM is better than a hero MM, a hero MB will always cast DN with more accuracy. Its quite simple.

So not all MM's are MB's?

The Riven · Jun 08, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitetime

So not all MM's are MB's?

No, vast difference between the two. One uses low lvl explosive minions to deal dmg, the other doesn't.

snaek · Jun 08, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

knitting is boring, tennis most definitely is not, unless your not the sporty type, who can't appreciate anything skillfull unless it's on a computer screen........

yea, i was like tennis? really? golf would probably be the obvious choice, but i'm guessing hes a golf enthusiast and so doesn't want to insult his own sport.

anyways, my memory is a bit fuzzy; which came first, sorrows furnace or tomb of primeval kings? because mm's were quite popular in topk as well, running along side one build i do miss greatly, the orders necro.

to the person that said mm is boring, you probably never had the joy of upkeeping 50+ minions.

while 50 minions is likely out of the question in today's gw, maintaining 30+ minions via multiple necro heroes is still quite doable and still quite fun.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 08, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Yes, but that is not the point.

If that's not your point then you don't have a point because you said that he sucks if his heroes can do it better than he can. But if it's IMPOSSIBLE for people to do it better than heroes then what you said is just wrong and you're saying That's not the point just to hide that fact. Which would be sad...

Quote:

Maybe mesmers just suck? I don't care much about them, I also fail to see how a mesmer could ever replace a MM in a group. Unless it is in areas with no corpses. Even then I'd rather take a ranger or even a warrior before I think about bringing an annoying mesmer with me.

Wrong. they just serve a different purpose in the party and are played in a completely different way. They are used to generally disrupt your enemies and the way they play. If you use panic right you can basically shut down a whole mob whilst using your other skills to kill the crap out of everything.

Anyway there are 8 slots in the party so why not use both?

Oh and I was never around before MM's were popular. I do remember when pre minion cap MM's owned SF. I can't imagine what the game would be like if MM's could still have limitless minions...then there would be absolutely no point in bringing anything but MM's unless there are NO corpses to be seen.

Xenomortis · Jun 08, 2010, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

If that's not your point then you don't have a point because you said that he sucks if his heroes can do it better than he can. But if it's IMPOSSIBLE for people to do it better than heroes then what you said is just wrong and you're saying That's not the point just to hide that fact. Which would be sad...

...

The post to which I replied was not specifying between Minion Bombers and Minion Masters - the OP itself doesn't make the distinction either.

I hold that a good human MM is better than a hero MB.
I have seen nothing to convince me that 10 bone minions (at level 13) with Death Nova is better than 7-8 fiends and 3-4 Vamp Horrors (all at level 20) under Order of Undeath and EBSoH.

My point was that a human with minions can perform better than a hero with minions - even if the methods are different.
My point was not that running as a MM is the best role for a human to go with (indeed, this is often not the case).
Hence, my post.

Zipster · Jun 08, 2010, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I used to solo my mm to farm Gypsie Ettin's for Superior Monk runes. That was nice cash stream. Little hard to get the first bone boy up, but once you got rolling nothing stopped you.

As far as Death Magic goes, I used to run Toxic Chill bar with great success many years back. Today there are so many better skills to consider it.

combatchuck · Jun 09, 2010, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I miss the old MM, even if it was easy mode. In Sorrow's Furnace, I could basically run full speed through everything, stopping only to cast. It was like a supercharged steamroller. Every time you see purple numbers, cast animate or verata's. It was a thing of beauty to have a mob of 50+ ranged attackers at my command. Just let me get the first 2 or 3 horrors up, and then everybody else can sit back and take a break. It would've gotten boring, though.

Chthon · Jun 09, 2010, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You are still going to operate under peak efficiency for human necromancer player (do not use death magic ...), but o well, that is ancient debate.

I'm beginning to question that ancient wisdom. I H+H'ed the last couple days worth of WiK dailies as a MM instead of a curse build for a change of pace. It steamrolled stuff faster and easier. Maybe it's just an artifact of the smaller team size. (Now, of course, encountering Falken's spawns right off the bat, before getting any minions up, was a huge problem...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Aww you HAD to make an insult, so I'm going to make the assumption that you have acne.

You seriously think any human can cast "death nova" better than a Hero?

I hate to add another insult, but you have no idea what you're talking about if you think Death Nova has any place in a good MM build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

If that's not your point then you don't have a point because you said that he sucks if his heroes can do it better than he can. But if it's IMPOSSIBLE for people to do it better than heroes then what you said is just wrong and you're saying That's not the point just to hide that fact. Which would be sad...

You misunderstand. You also brutalize the English language. I can maybe help with the first issue: Xeno's (correct) point is that a human MM is far superior to a hero MB. Zwei's (generally accepted) point is that being a MM is not the best use of a human necro because a human curse necro is superior to a human MM. The two positions are not inconsistent, and could be summarized like so: "Human_Curses > Human_MM > Hero_MB."

cellardweller · Jun 09, 2010, 03:11 AM // 03:11

I think the more important consideration is that you gain more by switching a curses hero to a curses player than you do from switching a hero bomber to a human mm.

zwei2stein · Jun 09, 2010, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I'm beginning to question that ancient wisdom. I H+H'ed the last couple days worth of WiK dailies as a MM instead of a curse build for a change of pace. It steamrolled stuff faster and easier. Maybe it's just an artifact of the smaller team size. (Now, of course, encountering Falken's spawns right off the bat, before getting any minions up, was a huge problem...)

That is interesting, and understandable: Enemy team is smaller, your team is also smaller, minion usefullness ratio goes up while curses aoe goes down as well as number of your possible physical triggers. MOP simply does not have its wham when you face few oponents (not even talking about ss which feels like wasted slot, but it always felt like that).

Also, AI was updated to put splinter weapon on minions which, if you have it in your build along with fiends and orders, should be pretty sick. Add some spirits on weapon spammer and you will have little use for curses.

aspi · Jun 09, 2010, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Wrong. they just serve a different purpose in the party and are played in a completely different way. They are used to generally disrupt your enemies and the way they play. If you use panic right you can basically shut down a whole mob whilst using your other skills to kill the crap out of everything.

Anyway there are 8 slots in the party so why not use both?

I used to bring Gwen when I didn't have the necro heroes. Even with full gear and insignias she always seem to die first and never saw the use of her besides the first interrupt. Now I must say I don't know the slightest thing about mesmers and basicly tried pvx builds for gwen. Never saw a good heroe panic build there btw. Must be good after the mesmer buff?

Zebideedee · Jun 09, 2010, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Yet to find a human player who can outplay a hero MM. Met a lot of MM when I was doing JQ, I could single handedly take out all of there minions, think most were too busy making minions than using death nova etc. I took out all their minions when i came a across them

MM & Rupts are heroes strong points and should be taken advantage of

The Riven · Jun 09, 2010, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebideedee

Yet to find a human player who can outplay a hero MM. Met a lot of MM when I was doing JQ, I could single handedly take out all of there minions, think most were too busy making minions than using death nova etc. I took out all their minions when i came a across them

MM & Rupts are heroes strong points and should be taken advantage of

What?

I don't know where to start ripping this post apart... I will just leave it for someone will more eloquence than myself.

majoho · Jun 09, 2010, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I hate to add another insult, but you have no idea what you're talking about if you think Death Nova has any place in a good MM build.

Be my guest, it's not like you're any kind of authority on the subject.

Zebideedee · Jun 09, 2010, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

I don't know where to start ripping this post apart... I will just leave it for someone will more eloquence than myself.

Go ahead, I'm speaking from personal experience here. The fact that you have no response leads me to believe your looking for ammo elswhere before you respond. Anywhoo, thats neither here nor there.